Twittereport: “United We Fall, Divided We Stand?”
Yesterday Sayoni organised a forum titled �United We Fall, Divided We Stand?� for Indignation. For those who could not make it, the event was covered live on our twitter. We reproduce the report here for you. We also would like to take this opportunity to thank all the people who made this event possible – photo/videographers, ushers, receptionists, logistics, voluntweers, and just anyone who helped out from the conception of the event to the execution.
| Time | Update |
| 14:28:06 | Sun is shining and time is ripe to start our event! #indigsg |
| 14:51:22 | Going to start soon! Indu chasing people to sit down #indigsg |
| 14:54:26 | Moderator: Sam Ho.. Panelists: Stuart Koe, Hui Yee, Jaime Low, Bryan Choong. #indigsg |
| 14:51:38 | SH: This debate will explore the issues concerning our LGBT community along the axis of gender. #indigsg |
| 14:59:01 | Topic of debate: Can our LGBT community actually work better if we stay divided instead of being united? Pro: SK & HY. Opp: JL & BC #indigsg |
| 14:02:50 | SK: Is the shared desire for same-sex relationships enough to keep us together? Fridae has tried to bring together men and women#indigsg |
| 15:05:11 | [Note: Proposition=> United We Fall, Divided We Stand; Opposition=> United We Stand, Divided We Fall] #indigsg |
| 15:06:40 | HY (2nd speaker of proposition): all of us grew up with heterosexual norms. But as LGBT people we need separate spaces… #indigsg |
| 15:06:56 | …to avoid falling back into those heterosexual norms #indigsg |
| 15:08:00 | If a lesbian walks into a gay-man dominated space, she may not feel that she can say what she wants. We need a space to … #indigsg |
| 15:09:10 | … find and nurture our own voice. 1 eg: Thru running WomensNite, a lesbian space, I’ve seen women grow in confidence #indigsg |
| 15:10:42 | Next speaker is Jaime Low from FCC #indigsg |
| 15:11:48 | JL(1st speaker of the opp): perhaps idealistic that we have to work together. How many of us work in a purely single-sex workplace#indigsg |
| 15:12:38 | it is not practical to work separately. there is limited experience if we segregate. #indigsg |
| 15:14:02 | integration also helps to eliminate stereotypes. we should work together to build stronger ties within the community #indigsg |
| 15:16:13 | let there be space for single genders, but to move the community ahead, we have to work together. #indigsg |
| 15:16:46 | BC (from OC): Has had little chance to understand women until 2005 when they did a workshop. 6/12 were women participants. #indigsg |
| 15:19:09 | … Realised when we break it down to the basics, we are all the same, beyond labels. Has wondered y women are particular… #indigsg |
| 15:20:53 | … people are actually different from what he was brought up to believe. Differences are impt, & org cannot continue if segregated #indigsg |
| 15:22:23 | … Why gay men should be concerned with AWARE too. Not a gay men thing, but because he sees himself as part of society #indigsg |
| 15:22:36 | … should cross the gender boundary to work together #indigsg |
| 15:23:09 | Now the Proposition and Opposition shall dialogue. |
| 15:24:14 | SK: In some contexts, appropriate to hv both genders together, and some not. Misogynistic world, men do dominate in many contexts #indigsg |
| 15:25:00 | … for women to earn that space, is something they fight for and that guys should respect. #indigsg |
| 15:25:25 | … At the end of the day, what brings us together is our humanity. Laws that treat both men and women differently. #indigsg |
| 15:26:15 | … But for social spaces, why should we insist that men and women should hang out together? #indigsg |
| 15:28:08 | BC: you can learn so much more by hanging out with a person of the opposite sex #indigsg |
| 15:28:59 | …that is how you build a relationship, by getting to know people as friends, in a close emotional relationship#indigsg |
| 15:30:26 | HY: agree that there is a common agenda, eg remove discrimination. but how we achieve that is different #indigsg |
| 15:30:45 | just by pulling in any random lesbian into a gay male project is tokenism#indigsg |
| 15:32:54 | JL: Dialogue should take place for understanding to happen. Can’t be tokenism. Start in social context,know each other as frens 1st #indigsg |
| 15:33:14 | if you don#indigsg |
| 15:34:19 | SH: Question for Prop – what does the community stand to lose if we work together? #indigsg |
| 15:35:07 | SK: our differences and our diversity is our strength. by becoming homogeneous we will weaken the community |
| 15:36:06 | BC: Prefers to say “diverse we stand”. (SH: But what would work in S’pore?) #indigsg |
| 15:36:38 | BC: Need to make conscious effort, create the space. #indigsg |
| 15:37:07 | JL: Younger generation doesn’t face this issue anymore (i.e. don’t want to wk with gay men). Gender divide will ultimately fall. #indigsg |
| 15:37:50 | Discussion has been opened to the floor. #indigsg |
| 15:38:29 | Floor: You don’t actually disagree with each other at all. What exactly is JL & BC’s point? Within FCC & OC, also women’s supp grps #indigsg |
| 15:39:03 | … we can work together while not ignoring the fact that we have differences. #indigsg |
| 15:40:21 | BC: OC and FCC have always had men and women working together for specific things. But more can be done. #indigsg |
| 15:40:36 | Floor: What is the diff between the 2 positions? #indigsg |
| 15:41:24 | JL: Differences are not that great. Gender stereotype if we talk abt fundamental differences. We can still work together. #indigsg |
| 15:42:04 | …also grp of people who are more comfortable with own spaces. But idea is to move them along – in soc we hv to mix with opp sex #indigsg |
| 15:43:16 | Floor: Definition of ‘divided’? Differing definitions. Recognition of diversity is not the same as pitting oneself against another #indigsg |
| 15:43:48 | … Grps out there interested in dividing us amongst ourselves. #indigsg |
| 15:45:00 | Floor: there are outside parties trying to use “wedge politics” to divide the community, ie divide and conquer #indigsg |
| 15:46:42 | HY: there is a need for intra-community dialogue, but each of us needs to stand up and speak out against false claims directed at us#indigsg |
| 15:47:00 | SK: Shouldn’t even have to debate on those grounds, of gay promiscuity, because it happens among straight people too. #indigsg |
| 15:48:14 | …religious conservatives are using this against gay men, but we should not defend ourselves. Or even if its nature or nurture. #indigsg |
| 15:48:22 | … It is about choice. #indigsg |
| 15:48:42 | HY: Promiscuity = stereotype? #indigsg |
| 15:49:18 | SK: More common for guys to divide sex from emotions. #indigsg |
| 15:49:35 | SH: Gender essentialist debate? Back to floor.#indigsg |
| 15:50:09 | Floor: An even more pressing reason for alliance/collaboration is it is important to sensitise us to internalised sexism #indigsg |
| 15:51:06 | … even in queer settings. E.g. Stewart mentioned TLA, called her speech schoolgirl with notecards. Belittling tone. #indigsg |
| 15:51:42 | … Bryan’s ref to what turns queer women on. This framing of women contributes to widespread sexism. #indigsg |
| 15:52:03 | … Even more important to use chances of collaboration to become more aware to combat these common habits of speech. #indigsg |
| 15:52:38 | BC: Not an attack upon women but recognition that she is female. #indigsg |
| 15:53:15 | HY: Misogynist society, misogynist terms come up all the time. Wrong to hold back from saying what’s on your mind – limiting #indigsg |
| 15:53:53 | … These terms of reference can be construed as sexist, and that should be the starting point of any debate. #indigsg |
| 15:54:10 | … We should recognise the sexual norms we are brought up in order to work together. #indigsg |
| 15:54:45 | BC: We should create a space where we can make mistakes together. #indigsg |
| 15:55:13 | SH: Is internal misogny the real problem here? #indigsg |
| 15:55:40 | Floor: We need a gender-specific space for women, because often it is too internalised. In mixed gender space, norms we hv #indigsg |
| 15:55:56 | … internalised act up #indigsg |
| 15:56:18 | HY: In Women’s Nite, women say they don’t know what women want! #indigsg |
| 15:56:59 | Floor: In Sg, we can be united over specific topics, in response to attacks. But when things are okay #indigsg |
| 15:57:30 | … we might be divided. Was expecting Stewart to emphasise how we do need to be divided. Need gay men to have their own stuff #indigsg |
| 15:58:16 | … The more separate we are, the more powerful we are. Rather have many grps than one big gay men/women group. #indigsg |
| 15:59:46 | … Not here to fight over heteronormativity. I don’t want to be with lesbians only. #indigsg |
| 16:00:35 | Floor: Thought we shld be divided to survive rather than staying apart from each other. What abt us and the larger community? #indigsg |
| 16:02:02 | SK: Forced into the position by the debate format. People are brought together by common goals. #indigsg |
| 16:02:38 | … Sometimes women and men can work together, sometimes it doesn’t happen, depends on the context. E.g. org what type of party. #indigsg |
| 16:03:19 | HY: Clarification – heterosexual norms meant the assumptions we make abt men and women, that men are assertive/women are demure. #indigsg |
| 16:04:13 | …heteronormativity doesn’t come in here #indigsg |
| 16:05:18 | Floor: Lesbians dont need gay men to speak for them, we can speak for ourselves, but we need to grow to a point to be able to do tt#indigsg |
| 16:06:50 | …we need to have separate groups to nurture and grow our voices before we can speak for ourselves #indigsg |
| 16:07:40 | having many groups is better than one single big group. many diff gay voices representing diff gay ppl makes us more powerful #indigsg |
| 16:09:10 | Floor: Division always occurs when there are differences. We tend to divide ourselves according to the constructs we live with. #indigsg |
| 16:09:53 | … But we can also choose to divide ourselves by norms we choose ourselves. Historically, people banded 2gether 2 face challenges. #indigsg |
| 16:11:09 | … Church grps are very organised. And we still have questions among ourselves. Are we divided? united? goal for this talk? #indigsg |
| 16:11:50 | … What history do we fall back on, leave behind? How can we move our community forward? Good to hv more grps, #indigsg |
| 16:12:10 | ways to develop ourselves individually and as a community. #indigsg |
| 16:13:59 | Floor: maybe the way to dialogue within the LGBT community is not so confrontationally but by having a platform #indigsg |
| 16:14:54 | But having many queer groups actually confuses those groups which are against the gay community #indigsg |
| 16:15:16 | Floor: where is the Transgendered community in this debate? #indigsg |
| 16:15:59 | Floor: how long will it take before men are allowed to attend Womens Nite? when will you know if women are confident enough to …#indigsg |
| 16:16:15 | …speak in front of men? #indigsg |
| 16:17:06 | Floor: When will women feel okay to let gay men into their spaces? e.g. Women’s Nite. #indigsg |
| 16:18:45 | SK: Even men didn’t want to care about the repeal of 377A, and it was the women who said we have to standup for human rights issues #indigsg |
| 16:19:37 | SK: We should ignore our differences and focus on what we have in common instead. #indigsg |
| 16:20:21 | HY: Women need safe space (wrt Women’s Nite). #indigsg |
| 16:22:12 | Floor: Surprised that people are talking about institutionalised sexism. Gay men might be afraid of lesbian women, #indigsg |
| 16:22:45 | … if we expect someone to change, we need to initiate that change, be friends with them first and educate them. #indigsg |
| 16:23:37 | … Danger of same-sex groups. Stop talking and do not interact, comfortable in their own spaces. Prevents greater understanding. #indigsg |
| 16:24:26 | … Although we have all these groups, we should also make the effort to interact with people,shouldn’t let our impressions stop us #indigsg |
| 16:25:56 | BC: OC has a male-dominated image so we always reinforce the fact that it is an all-sex group. #indigsg |
| 16:30:04 | Floor: Logical fallacy to saying that all women here seem so confident and therefore no need for safe spaces. #indigsg |
| 16:31:09 | … Education, yes, but it is also important for people outside the marginalised grp 2 be aware of blindness 2 their own privilege #indigsg |
| 16:31:45 | floor: vice versa, if we were to say that a sauna is open to women for a night, how many men will show up? #indigsg |
| 16:32:36 | Floor: if you (as a man) want to go to Women’s Nite, what will you be able to contribute? #indigsg |
| 16:33:17 | 63 attendees at tonight’s event #indigsg |
| 16:33:55 | SK: We are all talking about the same thing. Ultimately, we all have differences & things we have in common, need to acknowledge tt #indigsg |
| 16:34:52 | SK: there are differences and each of us is unique; we need to embrace that and each be individuals, not all from same cookie-cutter#indigsg |
| 16:36:53 | HY: Not knowing is okay. We should be open to educating pple who don’t know. We can learn a lot by coming out of our comfort zones. #indigsg |
| 16:37:45 | JL: We should not let the differences stop us from working with one another. Focus on similarities. #indigsg |
| 16:38:33 | BC: Sometimes anger comes from being comfortable with yourself. If that common goal is removed, what bands us together? #indigsg |
| 16:40:11 | All the panelists and the moderator received flowers from sayoni. #indigsg |
| 16:47:32 | Thank you everyone for coming (and those reading), and to our esteemed organisers! #indigsg |
Add new comment
